Culture Shock: Italy is Patriarchal AF

8/6/2018

Feminists be warned, the biggest culture shock in Italy for me has been adapting to what I can only call a patriarchal society that is stuck in the 1960s and that makes Mad Men look progressive. And the worst part is, I actually don’t think it’s going to be changing anytime soon. You hear the horror stories, the anecdotes, about Italian mothers and housewives, but you never believe that they could be true. If you don’t want to have nightmares little ones, put on your earmuffs. Gender roles are alive and well in Italy and I live in the more non-conventional North of Italy, it all gets worse down South. I should have paid more attention to these things when I was visiting Italy and seeing my MIL at work preparing dinner and cleaning up afterwards but it didn’t really dawn on me until my very first dinner party with Italians. When we arrived, the boys essentially put up their feet while the girlfriends headed straight to the kitchen to start food prep. The girls set the table, made the food, served the food, and cleaned up after. To make matters even more unbelievable, I remember like it was yesterday that I was asked (read: told) that I had to bring a HOMEMADE dessert, a torta fatta in casa. Each girlfriend showed up with a homemade something because this is just how it is and what is expected, apparently so all the other men can pat each other on the back for their great luck in finding such exceptional future mothers. I shouldn’t be so awful to the Italian men here, some might say that women shouldn’t complain because what you get in return is the other side of gender roles, so they still carry your bags, open doors, do gallant gentlemanly shit and it’s true, I don’t complain. My husband does all his “man” stuff with no issues. He takes care of the garden and the yard, takes out the garbage, opens jars and lifts heavy things for me. I guess the biggest shock is that women are now expected to work full-time AND carry on with their traditional gender roles while men are still doing what they were doing in 1960. For me, it would be fine and dandy to do all the grocery shopping, housekeeping, ironing, and starching if I were at home with my cocktail every day of the week when our job used to be NO JOB (if you got that Ali Wong reference there, let's be BFFs). The fact is, it’s no longer like that and women are working out of the home and men are still expecting their homemade meal at the end of the day by a wife that looks like Monica Bellucci in an apron and heels even though we might get home later than them and from a more exhausting day at that! As an expat and having grown up in a very woman-run world (Asian families you know), I’ve had a hard run at it trying to come to terms with these issues. I’ve more or less learned to adapt and my husband does help me with household chores (luckily this post is in English so my mother-in-law can’t read it because if she did, I would be in deep shit- yes, the gender roles are upheld even by women themselves, albeit of older generations but this is why I’m telling you they won’t go away anytime soon!). Oh and don't get me started on the "news" programs (yes, that's you Striscia La Notizia) which feature two male presenters conducting the show while girls half their age prance around half-naked and grind to English songs in some grotesque attempt to be useful. I'll leave an episode here (same as embedded video) so you can watch it but you've been warned. It makes your toes curl and if you can read and understand the comments left by all the men underneath the video, God help us. I used to watch in shock with my mouth gaping open. So that went off on a bit of a rant but there you have it, traditional gender roles is what was and continues to be the biggest culture shock for me about life in Italy.

CHEERS August Dolce Vita Bloggers, see you at the next one! Please leave a comment and then go and check out the other amazing posts. Have a lovely summer everyone and see you in September.

This is part of the #DolceVitaBloggers Linkup - #9 August 2018 - Culture Shock.

Past #DolceVitaBlogger Link-Ups:
#DolceVitaBloggers Linkup - #8 July 2018 - La Dolce Vita
#DolceVitaBloggers Linkup - #7 June 2018 - Hidden Gems in Italy
#DolceVitaBloggers Linkup - #6 May 2018 - Five Italian Words
#DolceVitaBloggers Linkup - #5 April 2018 - The Perfect Day in Italy
#DolceVitaBloggers Linkup - #4 March 2018 - International Women's Day
#DolceVitaBloggers Linkup - #3 February 2018 - A Love Letter to Italy
#DolceVitaBloggers Linkup - #2 January 2018 - Favourite Italian City
#DolceVitaBloggers Linkup - #1 December 2017 - 'The Italian Connection

23 Comments

Maddie

8/6/2018 07:05:16 pm

Super interesting post. Just wait until kids are on the scene... though I'd argue that at least in Italy the grandparents are involved whereas in some parts of north american you have: women doing all the housework, women also working actual jobs + doing all the childcare. Oh, and that pesky emotional/invisible labour (aka planning vacations, doing the finances and meal planning) too.

I will say that not all families from the south function the way you described. Gio's family is incredibly balanced in terms of household labour, as was my family, which is why I think we're such a good pair ourselves. I have seen it pretty rough, but I don't think I could handle something like that. Also eff torta fatta in casa. I pretty much always outsource that part of the meal to a pasticceria that actually knows what they're doing!

Solidarity, girl.

Jasmine

8/8/2018 10:44:50 am

Gio's family sounds amazing and revolutionary, I love them already. I honestly believe that part of all this is the reason so many marriages fail. You can't expect to keep up this kind of division of labor with women working full-time and then expect them to be as doting as ever and this just cycles to fuel resentment etc. Thanks for the solidarity Maddie and for stopping by to read!

Diane link

8/6/2018 07:40:26 pm

I don't know how you do it! I don't think I'd last in Italy.
I'm happy to see Maddie's comment that things function differently in her family. It's fine if women want to adhere to outdated gender norms, but what about a compromise for those who don't? Are Italian men open to it?

8/8/2018 10:46:21 am

Thank you Diane haha, I don't know how I do it either although I think I have it not too bad in comparison to some other horror stories I've heard. I don't know how open Italian men are to it, I would venture a...no they aren't. It's so engrained. It's really hard to change is what I think.

Carmela Granada link

8/7/2018 08:22:00 am

Italy has a lot in common with the Philippines in terms of gender roles, especially the part about the expectation to work full-time AND manage the house. And the dancing on TV....man that is similar to Filipino variety shows such as Wowowee (SAD!). My husband is Filipino but we both know the importance of "division of labor" in terms of housework and taking care of the children. Yes, I'm currently an Ali Wong housewife (ha!) because childcare is EXPENSIVE IN ITALY and we can make better use of our resources if I manage the home and the kids while hubby works in the office. ANYWAY, the women friends I have in Italy are all single without families so I have not experienced that kind of situation where ladies are expected to bring homemade food, etc. HOWEVER, I did experience being asked if I am planning to find a job...which offended me A LOT because like duh, I AM working my butt off managing the household and my family. My typical answer would be "I'm very hands-on". So there, that's my rant! Love your post Jas!

8/8/2018 10:49:24 am

Ahhhhhh so enlightening thank you Carmela, I didn't know that about the Philippines. I can't believe they have the dancing on TV too, horrifying. I fully support the Ali Wong housewife model, you are doing the hardest job of all and I know there is SO much work involved in managing a household. I just think back on Pride and Prejudice days when "managing a household" was super legit. And not much has changed, there's still all of the managing to do but the expectations to work have changed. I would have been offended too if someone asked me if I was planning on getting on job, no worries it's not just you!

Elfin

8/7/2018 11:11:21 pm

Yes!!! Love this post, Jasmine!

Women are the real patriarchs! I've seen female CEOs running companies and still being expected to look like Monica Bellucci, cook perfectly and have the perfect house. It's insane.

And I was suprised when I moved from the South to Northern Italy. I simply expected women to be much freer. They are, a little, but they're still there babysitting their husbands.

And don't get me started about Italian TV. What kind of lesson do children take home after watching that crap?

Have you noticed how hard the whole #metoo movement has struggled to take off in Italy? What they did to Asia Argento?

Thanks for writing this! Everyone thinks I'm crazy for saying these things myself!

8/10/2018 01:26:22 pm

You are NOT crazy. I know don't get me started on Asia Argento, they massacred her.

Ishita link

8/8/2018 03:30:21 am

The Italian culture is so similar to our Indian culture that sometimes its almost laughable! in terms of patriarchy especially, things are changing here too but as you said I don't think it would be as quickly any time soon. Its still traditional for the women to be in the kitchen. Imagine the villages of India. Makes me shudder at times!! Big hugs to you for dealing with a lot of other mess that you mentioned. Italy definitely isn't an easy country to live in

8/8/2018 10:50:43 am

Seems like this is still fairly predominant all over the world ahaha. From what Carmela said as well. I suppose I've been lucky growing up in Canada. I mean I don't care if you're in the kitchen because you WANT to be there, but it irks me all these set roles is all!

Dom link

8/8/2018 04:39:23 am

I definitely noticed this in Italy! I even brought it up to the group of guys I hung out with in Italy. They kind of laughed at me, but I tried to explain to them that it is NOT like this in the US. I have to say, in comparison to Italy, the US is a very progressive place, even now. Men and women generally DO regard each others as equals (even if societal structure is still catching up.) It's interesting to say the least, but also sad.

8/8/2018 10:51:19 am

You brought it up?!!! Whoa. You are a brave one. Interesting the response you got though, that's more or less what I would expect!! Sad isn't it?

8/8/2018 01:05:40 pm

It kind of implicitly came up a few times...and also, I could notice by talking about men’s roles too...those are also different in Italy vs. US!

Joy link

8/10/2018 01:16:27 pm

I've always said this to my Italian friends 'A lot of their mothers ruin their future marriages even before they get married! It all starts with their mothers still ironing their clothes and making their beds at 25 years. I have an older Italian friend who couldn't hang out with the rest of us for lunch one day and I wanted to know why? She said 'I have to go prepare lunch for my son. This 'son' is 26 years old! I, being the one with younger kids couldn't wait to get to the stage she was at...kids grown, retired and free to use my time as I wish. But no, she still had her life tied around her 'baby!
The men grow up with the same expectations from the women they marry, the women refuse to do all that, the men run back to mummy to complain, mummy wonders why DIL cannot cater to her 'baby' just like her, MIL detests DIL , DIL resents MIL for not preparing son for life as an adult, mummy's boy finds himself in the middle, trouble brews...marriage ends!

8/10/2018 01:28:56 pm

Joy, you are SO RIGHT about that. That's exactly what I was trying to get at, that it's this cycle that you can't break because the Italian mum figure is pretty much set in stone and even the girls that I know who swear they won't follow in the same footsteps, they are basically peer pressured into it anyways otherwise you are regarded as some kind of sacrilegious terrible person! And you're dead on about the detesting/resenting happening between alot of MILs and DILs!! Luckily mine is nice so we hardly butt heads :)

Rochelle Del Borrello link

8/10/2018 02:20:02 pm

Yep, it drives me crazy too! I hate some Italian t.v programs for the dancing girl factor. I kinds touched on this too in my post. Crazy culture shock point here for sure!

1/11/2019 01:31:18 pm

The dancing girls aha. I mean at least the ones they have at the moment are actually talented. I think they can actually dance and could do with some legit actual choreo...

Cristina link

8/19/2018 09:42:16 pm

Believe it or not....the situation has improved dramatically over the last 10 years! Those veline really have got to go! Ciao, Cristina

1/11/2019 01:30:13 pm

Cristina, I agree, but I don't know if that will EVER happen!

Paola link

1/11/2019 08:59:00 am

OMG girl!! This is LITERALLY the main and only reason why I escaped Italy to go live in the Nordic countries. And yet daily I get the shocked look and asked "You left ITALY to come live in FINLAND?!". I'll refer them to this post from now on.

All your observations are TRUE. Fact: less than 50% fo women work in Italy. Few for choice, most because (a) they cannot keep up with these expectations, (b) employers abuse them in all possible ways (very popular method: having women signing blank papers on hiring day, so that they can easily be fired as soon as they show a pregnancy bump).

Happened to me: I was sitting in class at the university, only girl, and was told regularly by my male classmates how I could not understand things because I was a girl.

As a woman in Italy, sexual and street harassment are your daily bread. Then you often walk home to a husband who, like you picture, put his feet up while you juggle cooking and children. (this is not true for all Italian men and I think will be false for most in next generation at least in North Italy - it's true that South Italy is way behind on these matters).

When I was ending my studies I got the chance to live in Finland for a year and I finally felt what it means to be treated as a human being and not a walking vagina. Yay!

Sorry for the rant. I just relived the first 25 years of my life. So glad I'm not there anymore and happy you are bringing some refreshing views into my old country. Now off to share this like crazy...

Jasmime

1/11/2019 01:35:33 pm

Hey girl heyyyyyyy! Ah SO glad you've left this comment (how did you find this post? I really hope you Googled "Italy is patriarchal AF" ahah). Enjoy Finland, I'm sure it's more similar to Canada so...lucky you! I sometimes wonder if Italian women actually realize these things if they haven't had to chance to live/work abroad, or are they just complacent? I honestly think you have to live and work somewhere else to realize this contrast Anyways, I could tell you so many shady things at my old work or things my boss would say that, if it were Canada, would be like HUGE NO NOs. GAH! THANKS FOR READING and stay in touch!

Rebs

7/11/2019 07:52:10 am

Wait. Did you just say that our job used to be no job, and something about cocktails? ......because “housewives” don’t work and sip on cocktails all day? That is extremely anti feminist. Check yourself.

Rosie

12/31/2020 10:54:52 am

My English daughter has just married into a half Italian family. (Father in law Italian). Why did I get the feeling that she was marrying into his family and not vice versa? She told me “Mum I won’t be spending Xmas with you again. Gianni told me I will have to spend it with his parents from now on”. That’s what has happened. She had a baby 5 weeks ago and has spent the last 20 days over Xmas at her in-laws house. We haven’t seen them at all. At the wedding we felt that as the family of the bride we were unimportant. Gianni’s parents hardly spoke to us. We feel that Gianni doesn’t consider us important and just puts up with our presence in the few times we’ve met him. She and her husband both have big jobs but she still has to do all the housework. He makes all the decisions: choosing a house, buying furniture, curtains, bedding. He does cook but not regularly. My daughter is not a shrinking violet but I am fearful that his dominance isn’t going to do her self-confidence any good, especially now she’s on maternity leave and doesn’t have her work to think about.

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Culture Shock: Italy is Patriarchal AF

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